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[Feedback] 1.10 Range Amplifiers

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Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1056	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:16:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: * Range Amplifiers now add 5%/10%/15% range per tier. This change is terrible. Quite frankly, this change makes Range Amplifier modules utterly worthless. Here are some numbers. Range Amplifier modules Percentages for the modules including the stacking penalties Level/First/Second/Third STD: 5%/4.3%/2.8% ADV: 10%/8.6%/5.6% PRO: 15%/12.9%/8.4m 10m Base Range Close Range: 4m Range Amp 5: 6m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 6.3m/6.57m/6.75m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 6.6m/7.17m/7.57m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 6.9m/7.79m/8.44m CalSct 5/2 PRO: 11.69m Medium Range: 10m Range Amp 5: 15m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 15.75m/16.43m/16.89m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 16.5m/17.92m/18.92m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 17.25m/19.48m/21.12m CalSct 5/2 PRO: 29.22m Far Range: 20m Range Amp 5: 30m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 31.5m/32.85m/32.77m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 33m/35.84m/37.84m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 34.5m/38.95m/42.22m CalSct 5/2 PRO: 58.425 12.5 Base Range Close Range: 5m Range Amp 5: 7.5m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 7.88m/8.21m/8.62m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 8.25m/8.96m/9.46m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 8.63m/9.74m/10.56m Medium Range: 12.5m Range Amp 5: 18.75m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 19.69m/20.53m/21.11m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 20.63m/22.39m/23.65m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 21.56m/24.34m/26.39m Far Range: 25m Range Amp 5: 37.5m 1/2/3 STD Mods: 39.38m/41.07m/42.22m 1/2/3 ADV Mods: 41.25m/44.8m/47.31m 1/2/3 PRO Mods: 43.13m/48.69m/52.78m 3 PRO Mods: Logi: 10.56m/26.39m/52.78m A/C/S: 8.44m/21.12m/42.22m Sent: 6.33m/15.83m/31.67m (honestly, don't bother after 1.10) Essentially, Range Amplifiers are worthless with the incoming changes. Three STD modules gives less than 5m, even on the long range suit (Logi) - how is that worth the slot investment? Even 3 PRO modules give a measly 15.3m increase on the far range, how is this worth 99 CPU and three module slots? I understand how the current numbers (25/35/45%) would make passive scanning incredibly potent (Logi Close range could reach 18.88m; Far range would reach 94.42m), but the 5/10/15 we're getting in 1.10 are just awful. There are two notions that come to mind: 1) Alter the percentages to be more useful but less than 1.9 figures: likely something like 20/25/30; or 2) Change the modules to provide a straight range addition: so a STD module would give +2m Close/+5m Medium/+8m Far, for example. Range Amplifiers do not provide enough of a range boost for anyone but Logis (who get some half-decent benefit) and CalScouts (who are a shadow of their former EWar self come 1.10.) The coming numbers will just remove an option from the game and make EWar less interesting. With the Far range having a precision penalty, we will be looking at up to six slots spent on EWar to get reasonable results at anything longer than short ranges - which is far too high an expectation to assume and definitely not help make the EWar game more interesting. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1059	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:40:00 - [2] - Quote I understand that Sentinels shouldn't have the best scans, certainly and I realise the Hotfixes are plenty fast. This is more of a, "Hey guys, you've messed up this module's raison d'+¬tre" and to get others seeing the number so that we can work out the right middle ground. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1067	Posted - 2014.12.07 07:20:00 - [3] - Quote I think people should be paying attention to the ruining of range amplifiers. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1070	Posted - 2014.12.07 19:24:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Kallas, they're buffing most suits base scan ranges to 20m now, so the change of range amps doesn't hurt as much as you think. Read all of the patch notes before jumping to conclusions. Assaults will now have 20m before skills Logi's 25m before skills Commando 20m before skills Sentinel 15m before skills Scout 20m before skills. Thank you for the denigration Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to my numbers where I am using the new base ranges, not the old. Thing is, that extra range is only useful with the addition of even more modules (Precision Enhancers) otherwise the 'buff' is nothing of the sort. Now, easy to access long range scans are a bad idea,but provided that the range is tied mostly into the modules you can guarantee that long rage scanners have low EHP. With the new Amp numbers there's almost no point fitting them at all, meaning, as Stefan mentioned, that running without modules and relying on the passive bonuses is more efficient. Quite simply, the sacrifice required to get a good range using modules is too high. MINA Longstrike wrote: For most others this is a buff. Frankly, not it's not. Well, in the strictest definition it is a buff, but the point is that the changes will not improve EWar with the numbers we have: extra range is meaningless when you can't actually scan anything. Varoth Drac wrote: I agree with why they needed nerfing. With the 1.10 EWAR numbers being as they are, the short range scans would have been far too powerful with original range amps. Precision mods aren't needed for short scans as the base precision is so strong. I could definitely see an argument made for the short range precision being less effective, by with the current range numbers you're looking at point blank/extreme close range, at which point scans are almost pointless. But yeah, if the precision was raised (such that it wasn't an auto-scan necessarily) but the range was raised also, I'd get behind that. Varoth Drac wrote: For my ideas, the community needs to decide whether, in principle, it would be acceptable for a logi with 3 precision mods and 3 range amps, to have around 13db scans at around 15m. With the current 1.10 numbers? Yeah, seems perfectly fine: that means they've fitted 3 Precision Enhancers and 2 Range Amps (using 1.9 numbers.) 5 modules for a 15m scan? Yeah, seems reasonable since 15m gives you barely any time to react to a shotgun scout in any case; the 38m 24db and 75m 35db scans are also reasonable for a 5 module sacrifice - that's 5/8 for Min/Gal, 5/7 for Am and 5/9 for Cal (because the layouts are busted at the moment.) Would you not agree that for more than half of a suits slots dedicated to EWar they should be pretty damn effective? Now,I could definitely see a drop in the Range Amplification skill bonus to make the focus more on module usage, but the 1.10 Amp numbers are simply terrible. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1072	Posted - 2014.12.07 19:54:00 - [5] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I'm talking about buffing the max range of 1.10 short range scans, at the expense of the need to fit more precision mods to beat highly damped scouts. Then I concur Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1097	Posted - 2014.12.11 01:01:00 - [6] - Quote Bump. I think more people should talk about scan ranges Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.

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